Yes, yes, I’ve heard the news: John Edwards is dropping out.
I’ve received e-mail after e-mail from you all wondering if I had heard and how I’m taking it. Well of course I’m disappointed, but I guess it was inevitable. I don’t think the media ever gave Edwards a fair shake, but I also think it was hard for people to get passionate about another rich, white guy candidate no matter how progressive he may have been. The sad part is that he will probably be passed over for consideration as a running mate since he was on the (losing) ticket in 2004. I’m also bothered that the race is narrowing down to just two Democratic candidates when the overwhelming majority of Americans haven’t voted yet.
So I’m left wondering, what now? Do I support Clinton or Obama? Figuring that Edwards campaign was a long shot, I’ve actually been wrestling with this issue for a while. The pundits are going to have a field day trying to decide who Edwards’ concession will benefit the most. The thing is, I don’t think there is a clear choice for true Edwards fans like me. Both Clinton and Obama have their share of positives and negatives, and neither fully represents the more progressive platform that Edwards was campaigning on.
I’m a little surprised at my own feelings at this point. When the election hype began over a year ago, I was dead-set against Hillary Clinton. Why? I thought she was too divisive. Too many people either love her or passionately hate her. I then thought I’d probably like Barack Obama as a candidate. He seemed like a charismatic figure that the public would latch on to, and they have. Only the more I watch her speak, the more I am reminded of how much I do like Clinton. She’s strong and well-spoken. She seems passionate in her beliefs. And as another blogger pointed out to me, maybe we need someone familiar with the ins-and-outs of Washington (a.k.a. an "insider"… gasp!) to be able to push through legislation to undo all the damage of the Bush Administration.
I’ve looked at Obama and his campaign, but try though I might, I just really can’t get excited about the guy. There is just something about him I don’t like, but it’s hard to put a finger on. Maybe it’s the way he seems to pay only lip-service to GLBT issues, and the insensitive way he handled the "ex-gay" preacher on his campaign tour situation. I feel that he more or less ignored our concerns.
Or maybe it’s the way Obama has conducted himself throughout the primary season so far. I don’t believe he handles the criticism well. As my mom always said, "if you can’t take the heat, stay out of the kitchen." Look at Clinton for example: Hillary has been taking huge amounts of very harsh criticism since the early 1990’s, and she has done it with much more aplomb than Obama.
Or maybe it’s that I worry he’ll be ineffective as a President. You can give examples of candidates with little experience making great Presidents (Lincoln, Kennedy) all you want, but that doesn’t mean the same will hold true for Obama. His Senate record really doesn’t boast any huge accomplishments, and I fear he’ll end up like Jimmy Carter. Obama talks in ideals too much, and that won’t fly if he gets elected. He needs to get more specific about his plans.
Or perhaps it’s that I’m disgusted that so many people seem to be voting for Obama because of the color of his skin rather than his ideas or experience. I wonder if Oprah would be campaigning for him if he wasn’t black. (I’m sure that I’ll be called a racist for even suggesting such a thing.)
I’m trying to approach this from a logical perspective: I want our side to win, so which candidate has the best chance of doing that? I might give the edge to Obama on that. You have to admit that he is on fire right now. I just hope that lasts until November.
Where I stand at present is here: My heart says Hillary; my head says Obama for strategic purposes. In other words, I haven’t completely committed to one or the other though I’m leaning towards Clinton. I will support whoever gets the nomination though.
So where do you stand?
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Dear Scott,
I feel your dilemma. I am a big Edwards fan as well. But my second choice (but after a little grieving period) will be Hillary. For me the decision is easy, I am a Dutch national and don’t need to (can’t) vote myself in US elections.
But the US politics have so much impact on my situation (not just via my US husband, but also through its foreign policy and economic policy) that we need someone who can turn back a lot of GWB’s mess and also can restore trust in the US with the rest of the world. Hillary can do that better than Barack. I feel that sentiment in Europe more. (Although I didn’t see all the results of the polls over here. There are a lot of them.)
Good luck with your choosing.
Erwin Kunnen
Yes Scott, this is truly a dilemma. I am exactly where you are…an Edwards supporter that feels as though the rug was yanked from under me. I live in Ohio, and have until March for our primary, so I am still watching, listening and waiting to see who I like the best. What frustrates me is that these early caucuses and primaries (where a total of still LESS than 5% of the voting population!) seem to either “make or break” a candidate. No offense Iowa and New Hampshire, but why is it that so many people weigh in on who you select? I hear so many people here in Columbus who tell me that they’re going to vote for “whoever is winning” when the primary date arrives. When asked if they know anything about the candidates stances on issues, etc., the answer is usually “no”. Unfortunately, I think most of the American public’s attitude is the same: vote for who is winning or for whom the media focuses. Not the way to vote in my opinion. I wonder what will happen here in Ohio if there is still a fierce 2 way race during the primary. If people are going to vote for “who is winning” and it’s a dead heat…hopefully people will think
Okay, off my high horse. Good luck in your decision Scott.
Jeff
I have to agree with my fellow Columbus-ite Jeff. People look to much at who’s hot in the media as opposed to what the issues are. And your “whoever’s winning” point is too true — and one I often come across here in Columbus as well. A former Republican myself, I now consider myself an independent — thanks much to the Bush administration — so I’m now looking at candidates sans party. And it’s pretty damn liberating. Suddenly the issues become more evident, the vote-for-whoever’s-winning attitude is gone. The act of voting against a candidate rather than for a candidate now seems weird.
I’m liking this independent thing.
Dave S.
dave491’s last blog post..EP Review: Yummy Fight’s “Round One”
Come to the dark side Scott… Hillary!
While I have my “baggage” concerns, I think she is unique in having solid (if “unofficial”) White House experience AND Congressional experience. She might be a divisive figure… but having experienced pretty much 8 years of vile partisanship while in the White House, she would have to be insane to want more of that or fuel it. She has worked well w/ Republicans in the Senate and has won over voters in “red” upstate NY.
While I find Obama to be a very inspirational person/speaker… and he certainly sounds better than Hillary… I have felt, as you mentioned, he is short on specifics… and there have been a few campaign faux pas that have made me think he is still too “green.” That said, I would obviously support him if he was the nominee. I just feel more comfortable with Hillary from an organizational/work ethic/life experience stance.
It’ll be interesting to see if Edwards endorses anyone immediately… I am hoping not. Maybe it’s just because I am behind Hillary, but these Obama recent/pre-Super Tuesday endorsements feel very bandwagon-y.
I would love a Clinton-Obama ticket (or vice versa)… but given what’s happened in the “eat your own” primaries (and I’ve had issues w/ both sides)… I doubt that it’ll happen.
Ed’s last blog post..What A Difference…
I thought of you as soon as I saw the reports.
I will have a reply for you, but I think I’m going to write about it on my blog. Needless to say, I think I have made a decision with all of this finally.
RcktMan’s last blog post..The first climb is the steepest!
Ed (and everyone) -
Yeah, I’m really leaning towards voting for Hillary come February 5th. I’m just trying to think of this from a strategic standpoint: if she get’s the nomination, would as many people get out and vote for her (esp. minorities) than if Obama got it? Of course if he got in the White House and was ineffective, we’d have a replay of the Carter-Reagan years all over again. An ineffective Democratic President would almost assure a Republican victory in 2012.
If Hillary was smart, she would find a minority politician (black or latino) to be her running mate and begin floating that person’s name around now. It would bring Obama supporters back into the fold. While he would be an excellent choice, I don’t think Bill Richardson is really thought of as latino among that community, so she should look for someone else.
I fear though if McCain gets the nomination, we’re sunk. I think he is popular enough among independents that he could pull in their vote. It’s time we started reminding people through our blogs and conversations that McCain was one of the Keating 5.
My biggest fear is having a “George W. Bush — Part III — The McCain Years” sequel. While i agree with many of your points on both Barack and Hillary I think Hillary has a very polarizing effect on both Republicans and Democrats alike. So, rather than suffering through yet another chapter of the Bush years, I think I need to support Obama because I think he can win. And for me, right now, that’s the only thing that truly matters.
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RE: Hillary… what’s particularly troubling is reading so many comments on “gay” blogs of people (most from folks I am assuming are gay or, at the very least, left-leaning) who are so “I would never vote for her” (most, much more strongly worded than that).
I get the divisive, baggage, dynasty, politician, insider stuff … but c’mon, how many of us were really excited about Kerry? There is never going to be a candidate that 100% lines up with one’s policy, personality, and experience preferences… you go with the best fit… if these folks are going to be petty, why not just make it be a petty vote against Republicans rather than a petty non-vote for Hillary?
And yes, McCain has me worried whether it’s Obama or Clinton (don’t care what the polls say)
Ed’s last blog post..A Heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius (#2)
Ed:
I’m Scott’s “token straight guy,” so take this question for what it’s worth, but I’m not clear why it’s a bad thing that a gay or left-leaning person wouldn’t want to vote for Hillary. (that’s not rhetorical, by the way — I’m really am curious) Does she typically command a gay following? Why is it bad to say she’s not the best fit for them?
Dave S.
dave491’s last blog post..EP Review: Yummy Fight’s “Round One”
Ed-
What really bugs me is when I hear someone say “I won’t vote for Hillary,” and when I ask them why they say “Because she’s a bitch.”
Not only is the misogynistic, it’s stupid. How is she a bitch? Would you fault a man for the same qualities? Methinks not.
Scott
Edward’s loss is a big one idealogically as he was the one candidate who wasn’t as hesitant to speak of vast changes in government policies and actually has a plan behind it. Its also unfortunate that he in all likelihood will not be the vice presidential nominee for either Clinton or Obama. I am a Clinton supporter and appreciate your candor. Obama is the best speaker Ive seen sinc Bill Clinton, but he is all rhetoric and has no substance behind his claims…if he is to become president, it is not now, but maybe 8 years from now once hes figured out how washington acts and behaves. What is needed right now is a strong candidate who can hold his or her own in the political and economic realms and who can lead a democratic congress into the next decade. Say what you want about Hillary, but she has been attacked in every way possible and she is not only standing but she, as a woman, has won 4 primaries so far…that is historic in and of itself. She got more votes in the republican controlled state of Florida than Mccain did and far outpaced Obama. She will sweep most of the super tuesday states by a wide margin.
If she doesnt get the nomination, then I as a life long democrat who has never voted republican, will in all liklihood not vote for president, or I will vote for the liberal leaning John Mccain.
Good luck with your vote…your candidate was outstanding!
First off, Scott don’t mean to hijack your blog here… but I try to keep religion and politics to a minimum on my light and fluffy blog… caught me on a opinionated day.
Anyhow to respond to Dave:
Given the two-party system, I fail to understand how a gay person can vote Republican. While I don’t consider myself an activist by any stretch, for me their party line on gay issues is a huge deal-breaker. Sure there are exceptions on this issue (Guiliani for one), but they are few and far between and usually there is something else that doesn’t make them that “better fit.” While many people don’t think Democrats go far enough on gay issues, at the absolute minimum, my future civil rights as a gay man won’t erode/be endangered any further than where they stand today if a Democrat is in the White House.
Much of the anti-Hillary sentiment I’m hearing/reading seems purely emotional (along the lines of what Scott mentioned)… and it just shocks me that Democrat or Democrat-leaning people saying that they would abstain from voting if Hillary is the nominee… if anything, she would be the “lesser of two evils” and at least things would *not* be headed in the same (or worse) political direction as the past 7 years.
Ed’s last blog post..A Heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius (#2)
A lot of liberals who say they’ll never vote for Senator Clinton will certainly vote for her if she’s the nominee. I’m extremely troubled by people who call her a bitch, and I’m troubled by people who just assume that she can’t compete with and beat Senator McCain. If the last couple of months have shown us anything, it’s that the political situation is very, very fluid, and that people’s minds change quickly. McCain is not as popular among independents as he once was, largely because of his unwavering support for Bush in Iraq. And Clinton is really very moderate.
I’m going to vote for her because I believe she’s the most qualified. And if she gets the nomination, I hope that she’ll select Senator Obama as her running mate. He would really bring out the base, and in another four or eight years, he’d make an even better candidate for president.
TED’s last blog post..I’ll Take Potpourri for One Thousand, Alex
You know I’m right there with you. I also have no idea who I will vote for next Tuesday. Of course Edwards will probably still be on the ballot for New York, so I could go that passive/aggressive route. People still voted for Fred Thompson in Florida.
I do have to say, at the risk of offending my fellow commenters, that anyone who is a Democrat and decides to either not vote or vote Republican on November 4 (regardless of who gets the nomination) is an asshat. There is no other way to call it.
And no, I don’t think I’m being a hypocrite because I might not vote for an “active” candidate next week. My vote will still be for a Democrat and it would send an important message to whoever is the eventual nominee that the issues that Edwards brought to the fore matter and still need to be addressed.
David’s last blog post..Kitten Update
Wow. You expressed everything I am currently feeling and writing in my own blog post.
It’s the hardest decision for me, and all my friends are giving me a really hard time about.
I really felt the passion in Edwards as he spoke about the issues he cares about. I feel SOME passion in Obama and Clinton, but it’s not the same kind.
I’ll vote for the Democratic nominee come November, but I have no idea who to cast my vote for next Tuesday now.
This has been excellent dialogue. Some really good stuff to chew on.
dave491’s last blog post..EP Review: Yummy Fight’s “Round One”
I’ll miss Edwards in the debates, and I think he was sincere in trying to bring the party back to its roots of helping the working class. That said, I had already decided to vote for Obama. I think the Democratic Party needs to move forward. The first Clinton administration was competent, and it convinced people that Democrats could be fiscally responsible, but Bill Clinton was never a leader in terms of winning new voters. He lost Congress, and he was needlessly partisan (and personally reckless).
Obama has a better chance of getting support from independents and moderate Republicans, and I agree with Ted Kennedy that he would be better at getting legislation through Congress. (Remember that you need 60 votes in the Senate to stop a filibuster, so you can’t do it with just Democrats). As for the comparison with Carter, the difference is that Obama has Washington experience. He is promising change, but he’s not overpromising to “fix” Washington because he knows what is realistic.
The problems with the dems is the fact that they don’t have anyone in the field who is not a history maker. You either have our first woman or first black. I don’t care for the clintons as I feel they are amoral. They will do anything to win the nomination and eventually the election. We (gays) need to understand that morals still count. We would have been better off without Don’t Ask Don’t Tell than with it. I believe if either candidate is nominated McCain would beat either. Not that I am a McCain supporter, but what he says he believes and I respect that.
PS: I am gay, and I was impressed that Obama used his address on Martin Luther King Day to condemn homophobia in the black community: “If we’re honest with ourselves, we’ll acknowledge that our own community has not always been true to King’s vision of a beloved community. We have scorned our gay brothers and sisters instead of embracing them.”
See here: http://rodonline.typepad.com/rodonline/2008/01/barack-obama-sp.html
It’s not just race - Bossy think Obama inspires people, and that’s hard to quantify. This country doesn’t seem to relish experience, or let’s face it: other democratic candidates would have lasted in the primaries while Edwards AND Hillary AND Obama would have been out. There’s something to be said for a fresh unjaded perspective, which is why Bossy cried during Edwards’ concession speech today. That’s a loss.
Scott this time we both lose,regardless who wins.
Wally’s last blog post..Why Grandma WHY!!
forgot to add: You got my Battle of the Blogs vote
I never liked Edwards,but it takes guts and conviction to run for President. My hat off to his bravery.
Wally’s last blog post..Why Grandma WHY!!
Scott,
I, also, preferred Edwards to the other candidates. It would have been wonderful to have an American president who actually put the ‘little people’ first.
Well, not to be. So what are we left with?
On the Republican side, it is looking increasingly as tho’ McCain will get the nomination. Certainly, he is an improvement over the Republicans who have damaged your country so very, very badly over the last seven years. I just don’t think that is enough - not only has your country lost civil rights left and right, the very fabric of your constitution has been rent and torn asunder. A Republican is not going to have the commitment to restore rights and return to the constitutional government which was the basis of your democracy.
O! My paws and whiskers, I never thought things would get so bad. Could get so bad…
Of the remaining Democrats, it is nice to be confronted with such a strong field that you are hesitating. Personally, I lean more towards the Hill and Bill show than Obama - most Europeans were impressed by the way they performed the first time around, especially compared to Reagan and Bush#41.
Obama has the advantage of being an enormously gifted orator. He motivates.
The hatred towards Hillary puzzles me; I don’t understand it, so won’t comment on it.
Ultimately, whomever you chose, your considered opinions - balanced by your sense of humor - have made this never ending election cycle (it is hard to believe it is still only January…it seems like we should be somewhere in November by now!) bearable for me.
Thanks!
Passing thought:- Does Obama have more or less experience than JFK when he was running for president?
Crail’s last blog post..Rabbie Burns Day
Well, I never really was an Edwards fan; I’m still sort of torqued at what happened to Howard Dean in Iowa four years ago, which is why I really wish there were a better (regional/rotating or SOMETHING) primary system. Edwards really lost me with his debate performance against Cheney.
Anyway, I’ve admired Hillary for a while. At least part of her allure is the absolute horror that emanates out of the political right at her, so that tells me they’re afraid of her and what she can do. I’ve also read Blinded by the Right by David Brock, where he details all the fabrication that he and others (then) on the right did so that they could do their hack job on Hillary.
I’m very much against the war in Iraq, but, now that we’re there, we have to get out responsibly. I think that what Obama’s been saying has been too idealistic. We probably can’t and shouldn’t get out fast. In the end, Hillary has shown herself to be much more pragmatic, and THAT’S what I want in a politician.
OTOH, I’m kind of disgusted with what happened in South Carolina, with the blatant distortions about Obama. What we really, really don’t need this year is a mutually bloody Democratic primary, which leaves the victor too weak to take on McCain or Romney.
I agree with David here. I got pooped on at dKos for saying something similar about folks who refuse to vote Dem or actually vote GOP in November. (I was meaner and said “you’re not Dems”, which was intentionally overstating the case).
As for my choice. Geez, I tell ya, they make it hard. I will say that BOTH candidates have strong qualities and some severe problems.
Their votes and, especially, lack of leadership are not at all inspiring. This is true for BOTH OF THEM. Clinton was already a given in how I was disappointed with some of her votes and actions. Obama also has been extremely troubling. I think both my Senators (in MA) have voted and spoke far far better and far more consistantly since 2004 then either of these candidates.
The ardent supporters, though, are making this even more difficult.
The right-wing vitriol happily used by Obama supporters to slam Clinton is troubling. Many also won’t vote for Clinton in November if she’s nominated as the Dem. That doesn’t make me feel very supportive of who they support.
The underhanded tactics of the Clinton campaign are similarly ugly, but the supporters are at least not talking about voting for McCain as much.
Obama is inspirational. Clinton is solid. Both suck in important ways but have very good qualities, as well.
So wtf do I do?
I want them both, together, honestly.
But everyone says that will never happen. Not sure why.
atari_age’s last blog post..minor annoyances
I have no idea. I was prepared to vote for Edwards next Tuesday. Now who the fuck knows. I figure I’ll do a lot of reading over the weekend and try to figure it out.
Maddog’s last blog post..Spaghetti Pie
Well…at least all of you live in states that matter - I live in Texas, which being Bush Country gets ignored by EVERYONE running for anything. The Democrats here are a shadow organization for the most part, and since the Bush family has the Republican party by the short hairs, we don’t see them either…most of our election year information comes from the news media, and we all know how fair and unbiased they are. And yes, I was an Edwards supporter and now I don’t know what I’m going to do when we get a chance to vote…in March. By that time the juggernaut that is “Hilabama” will have sucked all the air out of the process anyway and John McCain will have risen to the top of the Right’s “I’m a Better Republican Than YOU” slug-fest.
So I’ll be left with NO choice on my ballot, and I’m seriously thinking of leaving off the Election Year drama completely, putting in my DVDs of “Six Feet Under” and ignoring the papers until November. When does “The Tudors” come back for the second season anyway?
Oh, and mark the date that you first read “Hilabama” here - it’s going to be a hot word in August.
J
as a pennsylvanian, I resent the fact that the candidate slate will be decided BEFORE I even get to the voting booth!
I have problems with people assuming the “you’re a woman, so you are going to vote for hillary” statement. yes, I will vote democratic come november, but I wish I had more choices than clinton and obama for the primary.
crail said “Does Obama have more or less experience than JFK when he was running for president?” I could add jimmy carter in place of JFK. this would be an interesting study topic.
hell, being a responsible citizen hasn’t gotten any easier. have to study up before april.
I am so disappointed that Edwards dropped out. But, it was so obvious that he didn’t stand a chance. The debates were focused on Hillary and Obama and the media ignored Biden and Edwards. Now, most of the newspapers are endorsing Obama, Scott, you are not a racist for having intelligent thoughts about Oprah’s endorsement of Obama. This woman has so much power that it is unbelievable. I watched grown woman cry when she entered the room. These current elections prove that the majority of people listen to the media and do not care at all about the issues. I can’t bring myself to vote for Obama because of the illegal immigration issue and I can’t vote for McCain because of his stand on the war in Iraq and the immigration issue. Ok, it just might be Ron Paul. At least with Paul, government intrusion into our lives will be minimized and hopefully, he will put an end to the war.
At least you get a chance to choose your President - we tend to get what we are given in the UK…………
I have been a huge supporter of Hillary over the last few years, even though the Bill Clinton years. She is a very smart woman with a lot of influence, and she knows how to play hardball when needed. She has a good approach on the issues that I look at. Gay Rights in the military, Gay Civil Unions, The war in Iraq, Health care, etc. I mention it in one of my posts a few weeks go. I really think its time we get a Democrat back in the White House. Even though I think any candidate this year are 200 times better than Bush, I still think the Democrats have a better way to fix things.
Bottom Line, I know she can do this job! And what better “First Gentleman” to have than a former president? I personally thought the 1st Clinton era was pretty damn good. I am expecting this one to be even better!
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